Snake Bite

**ZAGran** · 08-20-2012, 12:11 AM

Currently if someone was bitten by a snake at my place, I would pack the bitten limb in ice and call the rural ambulance that is stationed 5 miles away.

If the ambulance was not avaiable it would be a 35-40 minute drive to the hospital. Hopefull the ice would be enough.

So in a SHTF situation how do you treat a snake bite? Are any of the snake bite kits any good? Which the best? (in your opinion)

Where I live there are snakes. Rattlers, cotton mouths, copperheads and about a half dozen others (non-poisonous) that will bite.

**wac220** · 08-20-2012, 12:28 AM

I am waiting for responses with good answers, This is also a concern of mine.

**dalewick** · 08-20-2012, 07:53 AM

ZAGran,
Great question. I got nailed by a rattler many years ago and the medic nailed me with a taser gun. Found out since then that proably did nothing, except make me flop on the ground. LOL. I know 50% of all poisonous snake bites inject no venom but there is no quick way to know which 50 you are. Without hospital/antivenom treatment, it's not good. Keep the individual quiet and calm and imobilize the bite area. Keep a constant check on vitals. Begin massive doses of antibiotics as soon as possible (as tolerated by patient). Keep patient warm and immobile and prepare to treat for shock and cardiac arrest. If hemotoxic (rattlesnake type) venom was injected the antibiotics may not be enough and the surrounding flesh will necrotize and have to be dealt with, which means debriding the area. In severe cases, amputation may be necessary. I'm no expert, so I'm hoping some of the medical professionals will respond with better and newer info than I have.

Dale

**RICHFL** · 08-20-2012, 10:24 AM

What to do in a area away from immediate help.

1. Do not panic. That can kill someone faster then the bite it's self.

2. Kill the snake and bag it along for proper ID. Don't want the hospital to give you the wrong anti-venom shot.

3. Clean the bite location with water, cover and keep it clean, and use an ice pack if possible.

4. Depending on location of the bite; Place a restriction band between the bite area and the heart. This slows the blood flow and the movement of the snake venom through the bodies systems. Remember a restriction band to slow the blood flow not stop it!

5. Keep the victims heart rate as low as possible by them laying down in shade if possible. Again do this to reduce the heart rate.

6. Move to hospital as fast as possible - let the hospital know ahead of time what type of snake it was so they can procure the proper anti-venom.

Remember each victim needs to be checked using the 4 life saving steps.

- 1. Check for bleeding. You can bleed out in under 1 minute.

- 2. Check the breathing. You will die from lack of oxygen starting in 4 minutes. CPR

- 3. Check the heart beat/rate. You will die starting in 4 minutes if blood does not get to the brain. CPR

- 4. Treat for shock. Keep the victim laying down, covered, and in the shade. Shock is the biggest killer.

**dalewick** · 08-20-2012, 01:13 PM

Originally Posted by RICHFL

What to do in a area away from immediate help.

1. Do not panic. That can kill someone faster then the bite it's self.

2. Kill the snake and bag it along for proper ID. Don't want the hospital to give you the wrong anti-venom shot.

3. Clean the bite location with water, cover and keep it clean, and use an ice pack if possible.

4. Depending on location of the bite; Place a restriction band between the bite area and the heart. This slows the blood flow and the movement of the snake venom through the bodies systems. Remember a restriction band to slow the blood flow not stop it!

5. Keep the victims heart rate as low as possible by them laying down in shade if possible. Again do this to reduce the heart rate.

6. Move to hospital as fast as possible - let the hospital know ahead of time what type of snake it was so they can procure the proper anti-venom.

Remember each victim needs to be checked using the 4 life saving steps.

- 1. Check for bleeding. You can bleed out in under 1 minute.

- 2. Check the breathing. You will die from lack of oxygen starting in 4 minutes. CPR

- 3. Check the heart beat/rate. You will die starting in 4 minutes if blood does not get to the brain. CPR

- 4. Treat for shock. Keep the victim laying down, covered, and in the shade. Shock is the biggest killer.

RICHFL,

Got to disagree with you on 2 points. The restricting band is not to be used as it can cause major problems within the circulatory system and actually kill you when its removed. If the toxins are artifically restricted, they along with the quickly accompaning necrotic tissue, when released into the body overwhelm the immune and cardiovascular systems and cause shock and heart failure. From what I've been told by a doctor, ice can have a similar effect.

I believe ZAGran is interested in what to do for snake bite when no medical help is available. I found these to be the most recommended procedures for when medical aid will be available.

most first aid guidelines agree on the following:
1.Protect the person and others from further bites. While identifying the species is desirable in certain regions, risking further bites or delaying proper medical treatment by attempting to capture or kill the snake is not recommended.
2.Keep the person calm. Acute stress reaction increases blood flow and endangers the person. Panic is infectious and compromises judgment.
3.Call for help to arrange for transport to the nearest hospital emergency room, where antivenom for snakes common to the area will often be available.
4.Make sure to keep the bitten limb in a functional position and below the victim's heart level so as to minimize blood returning to the heart and other organs of the body.
5.Do not give the person anything to eat or drink. This is especially important with consumable alcohol, a known vasodilator which will speed up the absorption of venom. Do not administer stimulants or pain medications to the victim, unless specifically directed to do so by a physician.
6.Remove any items or clothing which may constrict the bitten limb if it swells (rings, bracelets, watches, footwear, etc.)
7.Keep the person as still as possible.
8.Do not incise the bitten site.

Many organizations, including the American Medical Association and American Red Cross, recommend washing the bite with soap and water. Australian recommendations for snake bite treatment recommend against cleaning the wound. Traces of venom left on the skin/bandages from the strike can be used in combination with a snake bite identification kit to identify the species of snake. This speeds determination of which antivenom to administer in the emergency room.[29]

India developed a national snake-bite protocol in 2007 which includes advice to:[30]
8.Reassure the patient. 70% of all snakebites are from non- venomous species. Only 50% of bites by venomous species actually envenomate the patient
9.Immobilise in the same way as a fractured limb. Use bandages or cloth to hold the splints, not to block the blood supply or apply pressure. Do not apply any compression in the form of tight ligatures, they don’t work and can be dangerous!
10. Get to Hospital Immediately. Traditional remedies have No proven benefit in treating snakebite.
11. Tell the doctor of any systemic symptoms such as ptosis that manifest on the way to hospital.

Except for the coral snake in the south all north american snakes are pit vipers (rattlesnake, cottonmouth, copperhead) and are hemotoxic (affecting the blood and vascular system). with the exception of the Mojave Rattlesnake in the desert SW which has venom that includes hemotoxin and nerotoxin like the coral snakes.

In a SHTF scenario it will be easier to take precautions and not get bit than to try and treat a bite afterwards. Hope this help someone.

Dale

**Chefsimms** · 08-20-2012, 03:02 PM

You guys have put out some very good information. I was hit by a rattlesnake about 15 years ago, I was lucky only got a head ache...
When I work in the woods, or go trail riding I take my snake gun with me. I won`t kill a snake unless I have to. I`m invading his area , so I just back away slowly.

**ZAGran** · 08-20-2012, 06:31 PM

Thanks for the info on current accepted treatement of snake bites. I did not know ice might act like a restricting band which I know not to use. And I've been taught not to take the time to kill the snake. As the 3 most common poisonous snakes in my area (rattlesnake, cottonmouth, copperhead) all have the same basic toxin there is little need to bring the snake with you to the ER. Just keep the patient as calm as possible and get to ER as soon as possible.

As snakes are fairly common in the areas I've lived, I am very aware of the best ways to avoid them and what to do when you see one. The only snakes I've killed are the black (rat) snakes that took up residence in the hen house and a couple of rattlers and copperheads that decided that my door yard was a good place to take a nap. I did accidently run over one of the king snakes that live around my place with the riding mower, wasn't paying attention.

I suppose if there is no way to get medical help at all or within a reasonable length of time you can just pray that the bite is one of the 50% that has no venom. A good reason to take measures that no one gets bitten a second time or that another person get bitten. That second bite has a better chance of being venomous.

By the way, just because the snake that bit you is non-poisonous, don't think you are home free. You still need to get to the ER asap. Their mouths are so full of all sorts of very, very nasty bacteria and you could still die from infection if not promptly treated.

Oh, by the way, ptosis does mean neurological symptoms like a droopy eyelid or tics, does it not?

**johnnie l.** · 08-20-2012, 07:41 PM

Okay no hope of a doctor or hospital. The only thing that would be helpful at all is suction of the poison out of the bite, the way I understand it, cutting the skin at the bite site is useless because the poison immediately spreads away from the site light incisions through the skin only at the edge of any visible swelling with immediate suction through mechanical means, if at all possible. Oral suction is very dangerous to the person trying to help.

If you have antibiotics use them.

**wac220** · 08-20-2012, 10:16 PM

Originally Posted by johnnie l.

Okay no hope of a doctor or hospital. The only thing that would be helpful at all is suction of the poison out of the bite, the way I understand it, cutting the skin at the bite site is useless because the poison immediately spreads away from the site light incisions through the skin only at the edge of any visible swelling with immediate suction through mechanical means, if at all possible. Oral suction is very dangerous to the person trying to help.

If you have antibiotics use them.

This is the kind of information I was hopping for. No doctor, No hospital.