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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oscar Wilde View Post
    Well .... if ya factor in our Constitution and pay particular attention to the Bill of Rights section ....

    YOUR govmnt is conducting executions of OUR fellow citizens without the benefit of trial and jury for possible infractions that had they come to trial may well have been subject to jury nullification.

    Zealot? Koresh may have been a peculiar sort but as to my understanding of the definition, a zealot he was not.

    O.W.
    Oscar, Not sure what the Constitution counts for anymore. America has made a bad habit of electing to positions of power those that have sought the positions out (career politicians) and they truely are the ones least qualified for the jobs. Sheep go where the grazing is easiest and only react when the wolf is after them. The number of sheepdogs seems to be shrinking. The sheep now protest and profane the sheepdogs funerals. If SHTF there will be a culling as the wolves run free for awhile............Can't decide if SHTF is a bad thing or not anymore. Must be tired. Peace Out!!
    Judge no one, until you have walked in the same mud and spilt the same blood. Him, I call brother.

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  3. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by dalewick View Post
    Not sure what the Constitution counts for anymore .... Can't decide if SHTF is a bad thing or not anymore. Must be tired. Peace Out!!
    Dale, I'm not certain that it ever did .... selective application at best. I don't think anarchy could ever be a good thing .... but divine intervention aside, would be bout the only thing that could lead to course reversal.

    O.W.
    Things are seldom what they seem.

  4. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oscar Wilde View Post
    Dale, I'm not certain that it ever did .... selective application at best. I don't think anarchy could ever be a good thing .... but divine intervention aside, would be bout the only thing that could lead to course reversal.

    O.W.
    Oscar, looking forward to divine intervention.
    Judge no one, until you have walked in the same mud and spilt the same blood. Him, I call brother.

  5. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by dalewick View Post
    Oscar, looking forward to divine intervention.
    You and me both Brother .... the "club" is growing.

    O.W.
    Things are seldom what they seem.

  6. #25
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    I have just finish reading all the great comments that people have put out for us all to take in digest and make our own decisions. I do have 3 comments. I'm retired military E-7 (GySgt), with 21 years service in the US Marine Corps

    1. Military leadership stress: take care of your troops. You as a leader do not get special privileges, you do not sleep before the troops sleep, and sure as shit you do not eat before your troops eat, You lead from the front; that is what a leader does.

    2. Any base commander who would try to break away from the central government would soon find themselves behind bars. Every member of the command knows the basis of military law. its drilled into them from day one in boot camp.

    3. If SHTF to the point that there is no central government, then even the troops will leave the bases to find their way home to their own families. They just will travel in a better position to defend themselves. As stated they have the big guns, tanks, armored transport, rifles and a whole lot of ammo!

  7. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by RICHFL View Post
    ....

    2. Any base commander who would try to break away from the central government would soon find themselves behind bars. Every member of the command knows the basis of military law. its drilled into them from day one in boot camp.
    And then there is the apparently overlooked or forgotten, by the upper echelon, "refusal to follow unlawful orders", although some of our junior troops have suffered greatly, the consequences for doing so.

    It will take an individual of uncommon character to utilize the resources available to implement the brute force strategy commonly employed throughout the rest of the world to regain control of our little piece of heaven.

    O.W.
    Things are seldom what they seem.

  8. #27
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    Buggyout - You are very fortunate, and I think spot on in your assessment. The base sounds like an ideal place to be. I do have a couple of questions. 1. Would it be a target from enemies foreign and domestic i.e. would it be bombed? 2. If the Commander in Chief gave an order, albeit a 180 degree wrong order, would they follow, and leave you in the lurch?

    My first option is to bug in. Everything I own is there. I know everybody there. I am comfortable there. I am close to a hospital, and have two family members who require maintenance medication. Even if my house was blown off of the foundation, or burned to the ground, I would camp on MY property, and protect what was left from looters.

    The temperature is moderate. We can raise some crops even in a suburban setting. We have plenty of water with fish and game.

    That should be your first decision when prepping: Do I bug in or out? For me it is in.

  9. #28
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    Default On Key Factors for a BOL and/or a place to lay up for the night...


    Observation and Fields of Fire, Cover and Concealment,
    Obstacles (man made and natural), Key or Decisive Terrain, Avenues of Approach

    Posted : Monday, January 01, 1900



    Observation and Fields of Fire
    Cover and Concealment
    Obstacles (man made and natural)
    Key or Decisive Terrain
    Avenues of Approach






    All of these factors must be analyzed in light of

    the mission of the unit
    the type operation
    the level of command
    the composition of forces involved
    the weapons and equipment expected to be encountered

    1. Observation and Fields of Fire

    The evaluation of observation and fields of fire allows you to-

    Identify potential engagement areas
    Identify defensible terrain and weapons system positions.
    Identify where maneuvering forces are most vulnerable to observation and fires.

    Observation

    Observation is the ability to see over a particular area to acquire targets.

    "Visibility" is weather dependent or is a temporary phenomena. Observation, on the other hand, is terrain dependent and is relatively permanent. Generally, the best observation is obtained from the highest terrain in an area.

    Fields of Fire

    The area a weapon can cover effectively from a given point
    Fires can be of two basic types

    Direct fire weapons like machine guns, rifles, and TOW weapon systems which require direct line of sight to their targets.
    Indirect fire weapons such as mortars and artillery
    Observation and fields of fire are not the same. You may be able to see 25 km, but if all you see are armed with a rifle, then your fields of fire will probably be limited to something like 500 meters.

    2. Cover and Concealment

    Cover

    The protection from the effects of weapons fires, direct, indirect, and air to ground.

    Certain aspects of the terrain may provide good cover from some fires, while some may provide cover from only one of these types.

    Concealment

    Protection from observation, either from the air or from the ground or both.

    Examples:

    slope
    vegetation
    built up areas

    Remember that cover can be used to protect a force from the effects of direct and indirect fires. Also it can, in some cases, be used to protect a force from observation. If this is the case, then the object providing cover is also providing concealment. But cover and concealment do not always equate.

    If an attacking force can move forward under concealment, the chances of achieving surprise increase. Concealed and covered approach routes are important to reconnaissance units, dismounted infantry, and insurgent or terrorist forces.

    Defending forces seek to defend in an area which offers both concealment and cover to themselves but which does not provide covered approaches for the threat

    3. Obstacles

    Any natural or manmade terrain feature that stops, impedes, slows, or diverts movement.

    Examples:

    buildings, steep slopes, rivers, lakes, forests, deserts, swamps, jungles, cities, minefield, trenches, andmilitary wire obstacles

    Things to look for:

    Vegetation (tree spacing and trunk diameter).
    Surface drainage (stream width, depth, velocity, bank slope, and height).
    Surface materials (soil types and conditions that affect mobility).
    Surface configuration (slopes that affect mobility).
    Obstacles (natural and manmade; consider obstacles to flight as well as ground mobility).
    Transportation systems (bridge classifications and road characteristics such as curve,radius, slopes, and width)
    Effects of actual or projected weather such as heavy precipitation or snow over.

    4. Key or Decisive Terrain

    Some terrain feature (natural or manmade) which, if controlled, will give a marked advantage to whoever controls it.
    Often selected for use as battle positions or objectives
    Echelon of command, mission, enemy, and situation dependent.
    To designate terrain as decisive is to recognize that the mission depends on seizing or retaining it.
    Key or decisive terrain must be controlled, not necessarily occupied. It may be controlled by either fires or maneuver.

    examples:

    a bridge over an unfordable river which gives access to the opposite shore without requiring an assault crossing.
    a level clearing in rough terrain which is the only accessible landing field for airmobile operations
    if you identify only one valid avenue of approach to the command's objective, then the choke points on that avenue will probably become key terrain (compared to a situation where several AAs are available).

    5. Avenues of Approach (AoA)

    An AoA is an air or ground route of an attacking force of a given size leading to its objective or to key terrain in its path.

  10. #29
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    We are lucky to live in an area that not as populated as in some places , we have a great number of places nearby that offer seclusion , game and fertile land for farming and stock.
    The place we have picked out is fed by two natural streams , has a nice flat area about two acres and is hidden far from the small road that leads to the base of the mountain range.
    Two in the head and you know they are dead :cool:

  11. #30
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    Recently discharged? I'm guessing.
    Judge no one, until you have walked in the same mud and spilt the same blood. Him, I call brother.

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